The Gundog Club

   
   
TRAINING ARTICLES  

HOME

 

REGISTER

 

SHOP

 

TRAINING

 

FORUM

 

CLASSIFIED

 

DIRECTORY

QUICK LINKS  

 

Delivery problems

Dropping the dummy and other delivery issues  by Pippa Mattinson

 

Breeders

Classifieds

Club history

Contact us

Directory

Events

How to advertise

Lottie's diary

Mission statement

Photo gallery

Puppies for sale

Reference

Stud dogs

Trainers

Training information

 

Delivery issues are some of the most common problems raised in our forum and described to us, in the emails we receive asking for help.  

Some delivery problems frequently occur during the early months of training and are overcome with patience and simple well tried traditional techniques which manipulate the dog into the correct behaviour.  The idea of the well-bred gundog delivering naturally to hand from eight weeks old is a lovely one,  and for some puppies,  for some lucky owners,  this can be what happens.  However, for many gundog owners, the reality is very different.

In some cases, the puppy starts off well, delivering nicely to hand, but problems arise later.  This can be particularly frustrating as the handler then feels they are going backwards rather than forwards.

This article is about dealing with problems that have already arisen, but as with most things, prevention is far better than a cure.   You can find information on developing a nice retrieving habit with a good delivery to hand, in The Right Start puppy guide, and in Passing Grade One.  Both these guides are available from our bookshop.

 
   

JOIN

 TODAY

THE

GUNDOG CLUB

SETTING NEW STANDARDS

FOR GUNDOGS

IN TRAINING

 

Minor problems

Because there are lots of different causes for delivery problems, often depending on the temperament of the dog, and because ‘reading the dog’ is a skill that improves with practice, in addition to following the guidelines below, you may also find it helpful to have a few sessions with a professional trainer who can give you an insight into your own dog’s unique temperament.

With minor problems such as the dog ducking his face a little when you go to take the dummy, or fidgeting around when he arrives, simply altering your own behaviour slightly, and a little patient manipulation of your position can be sufficient to bring the delivery up to standard.

 
   

CLICK HERE

for information on

GRADE ONE

training for spaniels

retrievers, and HPRs

 GRADED TRAINING 

   

Awards scheme

Graded training

Retriever awards

Spaniel awards

HPR awards

Before you begin

It can help to avoid problems developing or worsening if you remember that it  is your dog’s job  to offer you the dummy, yours is only to receive it.   If he is slightly out of reach,  back away a few steps so that he has to come to you again.   Keep your hands up high away from the dog’s mouth until he is calm and offering you the dummy.  Avoid reaching out for the dummy until the dog is ready to offer it up.

Before you attempt to solve any dog’s delivery problem, major or minor, it is vital that you first have a solid recall without a dummy.   If the dog won’t come back to you,  every time,  when he is not carrying something he values,  he certainly won’t do so with a dummy in his mouth.

Some puppies may be reluctant to carry a dummy whilst teething.  Using a very soft dummy or rolled up sock may get you through this period,  or you may need to give retrieving a break for a while.  Teething is normally complete by about seven months of age. 

Some problems are more general ones related to the temperament of the dog.

   
 

MEMBERSHIP

     

About registration

Dog registration

Assessors

 

 

Different temperaments

The low drive dog

Some dogs get bored with retrieving quite quickly and lose interest in playing your game if you overdo things. Less retrieves, less often may perk up his enthusiasm. It is very important with a dog which lacks intense 'drive' not to instil 'steadiness' too soon, or to fuss too much over delivery too early. Get the dog passionate about retrieving first. Without the passion there is no point in steadiness or neat delivery because you simply won't have an effective retriever, and the dog may just give up when retrieves get more difficult.

The keen retriever

Some dogs just love retrieving so much that they feel 'punished' when the dummy is put away, for this dog the answer may be more retrieves not less. He may also be helped by allowing him to walk along at heel holding the dummy for a while before getting him to sit and taking it from him. This may help to disassociate coming back to you, with losing his prize.

 

The possessive dog

Some dogs are very possessive indeed over the dummy and find it very difficult to give it back. For this dog, ultimately, a trained retrieve using rewards may be the best answer. You may however be able to tackle this problem by repeatedly turning and walking away from the dog until he begins to lose enthusiasm for keeping the dummy.  This approach is described in the section below ‘Returning with the dummy’.

If you decide to use rewards for a dog who wants to keep the dummy, these can be either food, or another immediate retrieve. Both these techniques require very good timing and you will need to follow a step by step procedure in order not to create even more problems. The second technique (repeated retrieves) is also known as 'retrieving in drive' and it would be a good idea to use the help of a trainer experienced in this technique before attempting it yourself.

Instructions for using food correctly are contained in the clicker retrieve set out in ‘Passing Grade One’ mentioned above. Please do not attempt to use food during retrieve training without following a programme such as this one. Incorrect use of food will almost certainly result in a dog which drops the dummy in anticipation of the treat.

   
       
SPECIFIC PROBLEMS AND STRATEGIES
   

Playing ‘keep away’

At some point during the first year it is not uncommon for a young dog to become reluctant to return with and/or present the dummy.   This may occur in the very young pup, or perhaps more often, it will arise as the puppy becomes more independent.

The puppy who dodges away or ‘makes off’ with the dummy, may be attempting to involve the handler in a game of chase.   Or he may genuinely wish to keep the dummy for himself.  Distinguishing between this puppyish wish to involve you in play, and the dog who is determined to keep the dummy for himself is not always easy for the fairly inexperienced handler.

 

Returning with the dummy

Before you can take delivery of the dummy, you first need your dog to come willingly back with it.  One way of improving your chances of a direct return are to limit the dog’s options by using a retrieving corridor or natural opening in a barrier to channel the dog in to you. Many puppies need this kind of ‘channelling’ to get a good retrieve going.  So much so, that some serious trainers do all their early retrieve training in a dedicated long, narrow, fenced area.  This stage doesn’t last for ever, and the more often you get a good return, even a manipulated one in the early days, the sooner the dog will have a good retrieving habit. Gaps in a hedge, pathways between buildings, field gateways, even the back door into your garden, etc can all be used to good effect.

Once the dog has ‘picked up’ don’t just stand there waiting, set off in the opposite direction. Make him responsible for coming to you, never the other way around. Walking, even running, away from the dog triggers his response to chase or follow you.   Occasionally, this can be quite a protracted process with the dog staying just out of reach.  In this case you must feign complete indifference to the dog and keep walking away until he comes right up to you. If he overshoots you, dodging off yet again, instantly turn and march off in the opposite direction.

Sometimes, especially if the dog is very keen to keep the dummy, this ‘walking away’ procedure can go on for a very long time indeed.  You will need to be determined and not give up after a few minutes.   This kind of training is best undertaken in a wide open space, a large field or meadow , unfamiliar to the dog, is ideal.  The younger he is, the less keen he will be to be separated from you by too great a distance or for too long.  This need to be with you is your trump card, and so this training is best carried out whilst the puppy is still fairly young and not too independent.

 

Approaching the handler


Once the dog has returned with the dummy, you now need him to come close enough so that he can be encouraged to ‘offer’ it to you.  Getting the dog to come right into your body and make contact with you should be encouraged.  Even if this means him jumping up and putting his paws on you.

Sometimes the handler is unknowingly intimidating to the dog. This may be because he or she is worrying about the whole exercise and so is tensing up and posing an aggressive posture towards the dog. Dogs are very sensitive to body language. It may be that the dog associates approaching the handler with a previous punishment, however mild, when carrying something.  Making yourself small, crouching down, even lying down, and averting your face slightly (a stare is a threat to a dog) can all help put your dog at ease and get him right in close to you.

If the dog tends to overshoot you or barge you as he comes in, put your back up against a hedge, fence or wall.  It is surprising how quickly he will find his ‘brakes’ rather than bump or scratch his nose.

 

The delivery

Some dogs come back willingly but persistently spit out the dummy when they get close and then lose interest in it. This may be because the handler has inadvertently rewarded the dog for doing so in the past, or it may just be a habit that has developed.  Offering food in exchange for the retrieve without following the correct procedure for doing so can cause spitting out of the dummy,  as can throwing another retrieve before taking delivery of the first.  Sometimes kicking the dropped dummy a few feet along the ground  ‘brings it to life’ enough to encourage the dog to pick it up again.  Sometimes the dog will quickly spit it out again each time you do this.  There are as many different reactions as there are dogs, and it is always a judgment call as to how long to persist in a particular course of action, and when to change your approach.   But at some point it may be time to ‘call it a day’  with attempts to gain a natural delivery,  and move on to the ‘trained retrieve’

The trained retrieve

 

If your dog is over seven months old, and has a really enthusiastic outrun (chase) and pick up, after every dummy,  you can teach him a trained retrieve.  If the whole ‘walking away’ procedure is dragging on for weeks rather than days,  and the amount of time you are walking away for is not significantly diminishing, or if the dog has been spitting out the dummy at your feet for weeks then there is no real benefit in delaying any longer. It is time for a trained retrieve.

The trained retrieve simply means that the dog is taught the individual components of the retrieve that are missing.  These skills are ‘back-chained’ ie taught in reverse.  The dog must be first taught to hold a dummy in his mouth until commanded to release it.  He must then be taught walk towards you with the dummy he is holding before giving it to you.  This behaviour once well established, is re-attached to the whole retrieving ‘experience’  in confined conditions and finally taken back out to ‘the field’

There are two common ways in which a trained hold is taught.  The first, more favoured by traditional gundog trainers, involves physically placing a dummy in the dog’s mouth, praising as he holds.    The second, more favoured by obedience trainers, is the clicker delivery.   With this technique the dog is taught to pick up the dummy, and hold it, of his own free will.

I recommend the clicker delivery unless you can get a professional or very experienced gundog trainer to help you with his own method. This is because a forced hold can actually put the dog off ‘picking the dummy up’ and make your problems even worse.   A dog which drops the retrieve at your feet is a nuisance.  A dog which won't pick a retrieve is no use in the field at all.  A clicker delivery, results in a dog that takes pleasure in picking up any dummy on command, and can be useful when the dog accidentally drops the dummy as he can simply be asked to pick it up again at any time.

 

Passion first, delivery second

 

Not many traditional gundog trainers use a clicker retrieve, partly because it uses food,  and food used incorrectly for retrieving causes the dog to spit out the dummy,  and partly because clickers have long been associated with training parlour tricks. 

However, the clicker retrieve (and clicker training generally) is a well proven and very effective  technique and has been used by thousands of obedience trainers for many years now.  It can even be used to teach a reliable retrieve in dogs which are not natural retrievers.  It is based on the sound science of learning theory, and  is a fairly straightforward procedure provided you follow the instructions carefully.

Many obedience trainers teach the trained hold before allowing the dog to retrieve at all.  We do not recommend that you do this with your gundog.    The purely backchained retrieve is an effective method for ring based sports but in gundog training it is wise to develop the dog’s retrieving instincts to their maximum before instilling the steadiness implicit in the trained retrieve. 

We need our gundogs to have an intense passion and drive for retrieving perhaps unparalleled in any other dog sport.  Without this passion they are unlikely to be able to cope with the physical and mental challenges they will meet in the field.   Passion can be crushed by too much early steadiness.

Getting a good delivery takes time so don't despair. Even the best trainers sometimes have problems in this respect and some dogs can be more difficult than others.

   
   
We hope you found this article useful.  If you would like to make any comments or suggestions on the subject of delivery problems,  why not drop in to the Gundog Club Forum for a chat

THE FORUM

If you would like to contact The Gundog Club to enquire, or comment, about any aspect of our graded training scheme or  courses, you can also telephone 01428 717529 or email   admin@thegundogclub.co.uk

   
           

THE GUNDOG CLUB  -  01428 717529   -  IT'S NOT A COMPETITION

   

Unless otherwise stated,  all text and images on this website belong to The Gundog Club and may not be reproduced without written permission

 Copyright©The Gundog Club 2005, 2006,2007 All rights reserved